On his way, to Dakshineswar from Keshab’s cottage Sri Ramakrishna stopped at Jaygopal Sen’s house. It was about seven o’clock in the evening. In the drawing-room Jaygopal’s relatives and neighbours had gathered. Vaikuntha, Jaygopal’s brother, said to the Master: “Sir, we are worldly people. Please give us some advice.”

MASTER: “Do your duty to the world after knowing God, With one hand hold to the Lotus Feet of the Lord and with the other do your work.”

VAIKUNTHA: “Is the world unreal?”

MASTER: “Yes, it is unreal as long as one has not realized God. Through ignorance man forgets God and speaks always of ‘I’ and ‘mine’. He sinks down and down, entangled in maya, deluded by ‘woman and gold’. Maya robs him of his knowledge to such an extent that he cannot find the way of escape, though such a way exists.

“Listen to a song:

When such delusion veils the world, through Mahamaya’s spell,
That Brahma is bereft of sense
And Vishnu loses consciousness,
What hope is left for men? . . .

“You all know from your experience how impermanent the world is. Look at it this way. How many people have come into the world and again passed away! People are born and they die. This moment the world is and the next it is not. It is impermanent. Those you think to be your very own will not exist for you when you close your eyes in death. Again, you see people who have no immediate relatives, and yet for the sake of a grandson they will not go to Benares to lead a holy life. ‘Oh, what will become of my Haru then?’ they argue.

The narrow channel first is made, and there the trap is set;
But open though the passage lies,
The fish, once safely through the gate,
Do not come out again.

Yet even though a way leads forth,
Encased within its own cocoon,
The worm remains to die.

This kind of world is illusory and impermanent.”

A NEIGHBOUR: “Why, sir, should one hold to God with one hand and to the world with the other? Why should one even stretch out one hand to hold to the world, if it is impermanent?”

MASTER : “The world is not impermanent if one lives there after knowing God. Listen to another song:

O mind, you do not know how to farm!
Fallow lies the field of your life.
If you had only worked it well,
How rich a harvest you might reap!
Hedge it about with Kali’s name
If you would keep your harvest safe;
This is the stoutest hedge of all,
For Death himself cannot come near it. . . .

“Did you listen to the song?

Hedge it about with Kali’s name
If you would keep your harvest safe.

Surrender yourself to God and you will achieve everything.

This is the stoutest hedge of all,
For Death himself cannot come near it.

“Yes, it is a strong hedge indeed. If you but realize God, you won’t see the world as unsubstantial. He who has realized God knows that God Himself has become the world and all living beings. When you feed your child, you should feel that you are feeding God. You should look on your father and mother as veritable manifestations of God and the Divine Mother, and serve them as such. If a man enters the world after realizing God, he does not generally keep up physical relations with his wife. Both of them are devotees; they love to talk only of God and pass their time in spiritual conversation. They serve other devotees of God, for they know that God alone has become all living beings; and, knowing this, they devote their lives to the service of others.”

NEIGHBOUR: “But, sir, such a husband and wife are not to be found anywhere.”

MASTER: “Yes, they can be found, though they may be very rare. Worldly people cannot recognize them. In order to lead such a life both husband and wife must be spiritual. It is possible to lead such a life if both of them have tasted the Bliss of God. God’s special grace is necessary to create such a couple; otherwise there will always be misunderstanding between them. In that case the one has to leave the other. Life becomes very miserable if husband and wife do not agree. The wife will say to her husband day and night: ‘Why did my father marry me to such a person? I can’t get enough to eat or to feed my children. I haven’t clothes enough to cover mv body or to give to my children. I haven’t received a single piece of jewelry from you. How happy you have made me! Ah! You keep your eyes closed and mutter the name of God! Now do give up all these crazy ideas.'”

DEVOTEE: “There are such obstacles, certainly. Besides, the children may be disobedient. There is no end of difficulties. Now, sir, what is the way?”

MASTER: “It is extremely difficult to practise spiritual discipline and at the same time lead a householder’s life. There are many handicaps: disease, grief, poverty, misunderstanding with one’s wife, and disobedient, stupid, and stubborn children. I don’t have to give you a list of them.

“But still there is a way out. One should pray to God, going now and then into solitude, and make efforts to realize Him.”

NEIGHBOUR: “Must one leave home then?”

MASTER: “No, not altogether. Whenever you have leisure, go into solitude for a day or two. At that time don’t have any relations with the outside world and don’t hold any conversation with worldly people on worldly affairs. You must live either in solitude or in the company of holy men.”

NEIGHBOUR: “How can one recognize a holy man?”

MASTER: “He who has surrendered his body, mind, and innermost self to God is surely a holy man. He who has renounced ‘woman and gold’ is surely a holy man. He is a holy man who does not regard woman with the eyes of a worldly person. He never forgets to look upon a woman as his mother, and to offer her his worship if he happens to be near her. The holy man constantly thinks of God and does not indulge in any talk except about spiritual things. Furthermore, he serves all beings, knowing that God resides in everybody’s heart. These, in general, are the signs of a holy man.”

NEIGHBOUR: “Must one always live in solitude?”

MASTER: “Haven’t you seen the trees on the foot-path along a street? They are fenced around as long as they are very young; otherwise cattle destroy them. But there is no longer any need of fences when their trunks grow thick and strong. Then they won’t break even if an elephant is tied to them. Just so, there will be no need for you to worry and fear if you make your mind as strong as a thick tree-trunk. First of all try to acquire discrimination. Break the jack-fruit open only after you have rubbed your hands with oil; then its sticky milk won’t smear them.”

NEIGHBOUR: “What is discrimination?”

MASTER: “Discrimination is the reasoning by which one knows that God alone is real and all else is unreal. Real means eternal, and unreal means impermanent. He who has acquired discrimination knows that God is the only Substance and all else is non-existent. With the awakening of this spirit of discrimination a man wants to know God. On the contrary, if a man loves the unreal — such things as creature comforts, name, fame, and wealth —, then he doesn’t want to know God, who is of the very nature of Reality. Through discrimination between the Real and the unreal one seeks to know God.

“Listen to a song:

Come, let us go for a walk, O mind, to Kali, the Wish-fulfilling Tree,
And there beneath It gather the four fruits of life.
Of your two wives, Dispassion and Worldliness,
Bring along Dispassion only, on your way to the Tree,
And ask her son Discrimination about the Truth. . . .

“By turning the mind within oneself one acquires discrimination, and through discrimination one thinks of Truth. Then the mind feels the desire to ‘go for a walk to Kali, the Wish-fulfilling Tree.’ Reaching that Tree, that is to say, going near to God, you can without any effort gather four fruits, namely, dharma, artha, kama, and moksha. Yes, after realizing God, one can also get, if one so desires, dharma, artha, and kama, which are necessary for leading the worldly life.”

NEIGHBOUR: “Then why should one call the world maya?”

MASTER: “As long as one has not realized God, one should renounce the world, following the process of ‘Neti, neti’. But he who has attained God knows that it is God who has become all this. Then he sees that God, maya, living beings, and the universe form one whole. God includes the universe and its living beings. Suppose you have separated the shell, flesh, and seeds of a bel-fruit and someone asks you the weight of the fruit. Will you leave aside the shell and the seeds, and weigh only the flesh? Not at all. To know the real weight of the fruit, you must weigh the whole of it — the shell, the flesh, and the seeds. Only then can you tell its real weight. The shell may be likened to the universe, and the seeds to living beings. While one is engaged in discrimination one says to oneself that the universe and the living beings are non-Self and unsubstantial. At that time one thinks of the flesh alone as the substance, and the shell and seeds as unsubstantial. But after discrimination is over, one feels that all three parts of the fruit together form a unity. Then one further realizes that the stuff that has produced the flesh of the fruit has also produced the shell and seeds. To know the real nature of the bel-fruit one must know all three.

“It is the process of evolution and involution. The world, after its dissolution, remains involved in God; and God, at the time of creation, evolves as the world. Butter goes with buttermilk, and buttermilk goes with butter. If there is a thing called buttermilk, then butter also exists; and if there is a thing called butter, then buttermilk also exists. If the Self exists, then the non-Self must also exist.

“The phenomenal world belongs to that very Reality to which the Absolute belongs; again, the Absolute belongs to that very Reality to which the phenomenal world belongs. He who is realized as God has also become the universe and its living beings. One who knows the Truth knows that it is He alone who has become father and mother, child and neighbour, man and animal, good and bad, holy and unholy, and so forth.”

NEIGHBOUR: “Then is there no virtue and no sin?”

MASTER: “They both exist and do not exist. If God keeps the ego in a man, then He keeps in him the sense of differentiation and also the sense of virtue and sin. But in a rare few He completely effaces the ego, and these go beyond virtue and sin, good and bad. As long as a man has not realized God, he retains the sense of differentiation and the knowledge of good and bad. You may say: ‘Virtue and sin are the same to me. I am doing only as God bids me.’ But you know in your heart of hearts that those are mere words. No sooner do you commit an evil deed than you feel a palpitation in your heart. Even after God has been realized, He keeps in the mind of the devotee, if He so desires, the feeling of the ‘servant ego’. In that state the devotee says, ‘O God, Thou art the Master and I am Thy servant.’ Such a devotee enjoys only spiritual talk and spiritual deeds. He does not enjoy the company of ungodly people. He does not care for any work that is not of a holy nature. So you see that God keeps the sense of differentiation even in such a devotee.”

NEIGHBOUR: “You ask us, sir, to live in the world after knowing God. Can God really be known?”

MASTER: “God cannot be known by the sense-organs or by this mind; but He can be known by the pure mind, the mind that is free from worldly desires.”

NEIGHBOUR: “Who can know God?”

MASTER: “Right. Who can really know Him? But as for us, it is enough to know as much of Him as we need. What need have I of a whole well of water? One jar is more than enough for me. An ant went to a sugar hill. Did it need the entire hill? A grain or two of sugar was more than enough.”

NEIGHBOUR: “Sir, we are like typhoid patients. How can we be satisfied with one jar of water? We feel like knowing the whole of God.”

MASTER: “That’s true. But there is also medicine for typhoid.”

NEIGHBOUR: “What is that medicine, sir?”

MASTER: “The company of holy men, repeating the name of God and singing His glories, and unceasing prayer. I prayed to the Divine Mother: ‘Mother, I don’t seek knowledge. Here, take Thy knowledge, take Thy ignorance. Give me only pure love for Thy Lotus Feet.’ I didn’t ask for anything else.

“As is the disease, so must the remedy be. The Lord says in the Gita:

‘O Arjuna, take refuge in Me. I shall deliver you from all sins.’ Take shelter at His feet. He will give you right understanding. He will take entire responsibility for you. Then you will get rid of the typhoid. Can one ever know God with such a mind as this? Can one pour four seers of milk into a one-seer pot? Can we ever know God unless He lets us know Him? Therefore I say, take shelter in God. Let Him do whatever He likes. He is self-willed. What power is there in a man?”